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Let's say I have two sets $A$ and $B$, and a relation $R \subseteq A \times B$. $R' \subset R$.

Can I define a predicate $P(R) = \forall a \in A, \exists b \in B, (a,b) \not\in R$

And then define another set $X = \{ (a,b) | (a,b) \in R, P(R')\}$ ?

If yes, did I miss anything in the notation? If no, how can I achieve what I want to define? In fact, the predicate $P$ is just a global constraint that should be satisfied.

firas
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  • Are you trying to work in a specific axiomatic set theory? – Zhen Lin Apr 30 '15 at 13:08
  • No. My knowledge about set-theory is fairly basic. – firas Apr 30 '15 at 13:14
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    Consider the formula $P(R') := \forall a \exists b (a,b) \notin R'$; if we assume the "parameter" $R'$, then the formula is true or false. Thus, the set $X = { (a,b) | (a,b) \in R \ \text {and} \ P(R′) }$ can be the emptyset or simply $X = { (a,b) | (a,b) \in R }$... – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Apr 30 '15 at 13:36
  • And if the predicate was $\forall a \exists b((a,b) \in R \wedge (a,b) \not\in R')$ ?? – firas Apr 30 '15 at 13:51
  • Is this for an introductory logic class? If so, you probably are not allowed to apply relations to relations, so that therefore $P(R)$ would not be considered a well-formed formula. – Addem May 01 '15 at 05:36

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The "set-forming" symbol $X = \{ x \mid \varphi(x) \}$ is used to define a set using a formula $\varphi(x)$ with a free variable $x$.

The formula expresses a "condition" that must hold or not for the objects in the domain : the condition $\varphi(x)$ will "select" those $a$ such that $\varphi(a)$ holds, and they will be "put" in $X$, from those $a$ such that $\varphi(a)$ does not hold, and they will be "left out" from $X$.

Of course, the formula expressing the condition can have other variables (used as "parameters").

In your example, the formula $P(R′):= ∀a∃b(a,b) \notin R′$ has no free variables, except for the "parameter" $R′$; thus, for a specified $R'$, the formula is either true or false.

This implies that the set $X = \{ (a,b) \mid (a,b) \in R \ \text {and} \ P(R') \}$ can be the emptyset or simply $X= \{ (a,b) \mid (a,b) \in R \}$.

Considering your example with $R' \subset R$, what we can do, for example, is :

$X = \{ x \mid \exists y [(x,y) \in R \ \text {and} \ (x,y) \notin R'] \}$.

Here the formula $\varphi$ is $\exists y [(x,y) \in R \ \text {and} \ (x,y) \notin R']$, i.e. we have : $\varphi(x,R,R')$.


If you need is to "separate" the "complement" of $R'$ in $R$, this will be :

$X = \{ x \mid x=(a,b) \land a \in A \land b \in B \land (a,b) \in R \land (a,b) \notin R' \}$

or, more simply :

$X = \{ x \mid x \in R \land x \notin R' \}$.