2

Assume we have a sequence of finite subsets of $\mathbb R$. Or equivalently a sequence of finite subsets of the closed interval from $0$ to $1$.

Is it possible that this sequence converges to the whole interval?

Is this an example: take first set to be $\{1/2\}$. Then add points halfway between the end and $1/2$: $\{1/4,1/2,3/4\}$. Continue this. Does this converge to the whole interval?

Consider also the characteristic function for these sets. Do they converge pointwise to constant function $1$ in relation to the standard topology of $\mathbb R$?

zyx
  • 35,436
Valtteri
  • 3,154
  • 15
    Converge in what sense? – Brian M. Scott Mar 18 '13 at 23:10
  • 3
    @BrianM.Scott in the sense that is there is a sequence in the set of characteristic functions of finite sets in the product topology of $\mathbb R ^{\mathbb R}$ that converges in the usual sense to the constant function 1. Sorry about this, shouldn't have asked this nonsense question without all info at 1 AM... – Valtteri Mar 19 '13 at 14:01
  • The countable union of finite sets is countable, so convergence of indicator functions in the product topology is not possible. – Michael Greinecker Apr 22 '13 at 00:16

7 Answers7

4

To think of a sequence of sets as “converging” to a set is to invite serious and thoroughgoing confusion. (Unless of course you have defined a topology on the set of subsets of your big set (in this case $\mathbb R$ or $[0,1]$). But you haven’t done that.)

Almost surely, you’re really asking about the union of the sets mentioned in the sequence. To decide whether a point is in the union, you must do nothing more than decide whether that point is in one of the sets. Once you realize this, you see that even the point $1/3$ is not in the union.

I want to stress the disastrousness of thinking of infinite union as a kind of convergence: Consider the closed intervals $I_n=[1/n,1-1/n]$. Now the endpoints do indeed converge to $0$ and $1$. But since neither of these two is in any of the closed intervals $I_n$, so neither $0$ nor $1$ is in the union. Two entirely different concepts!

Lubin
  • 62,818
1

There is a sense in which your sets (taken in $[0,1]$) converge to $[0,1]$, though it’s probably not what you had in mind. Let $X=[0,1]$ with the usual topology. For $n\in\Bbb Z^+$ let $$D_n=\left\{\frac{k}{2^n}:0<k<2^n\right\}\;.$$

The sequence $\langle D_n:n\in\Bbb Z^+\rangle$ does indeed converge to $[0,1]$ in the Vietoris topology on the space $K(X)$ of compact subsets of $[0,1]$: if $\langle U_1,\dots,U_n\rangle$ is a basic open nbhd of $[0,1]$ (see the link for notation), then $\bigcup_{k=1}^nU_k=[0,1]$, and it’s clear that for all sufficiently large $m$ we must have $D_m\cap U_k\ne\varnothing$ for $k=1,\dots,n$ and hence $D_m\in\langle U_1,\dots,U_n\rangle$.

Brian M. Scott
  • 616,228
0

Your sequence of sets "converges" to the set of dyadic rationals (rationals with denominator a power of $2$). That set is dense in the interval. So for every real there is a sequence $x_1,x_2,\dots$ converging to that real, with $x_1$ in your first set, $x_2$ in your second set, and so on.

The characteristic functions converge pointwise to the function that is $1$ on the dyadic rationals and zero elsewhere.

Gerry Myerson
  • 179,216
0

The example of $\{\frac{1}{2}\}$, $\{\frac{1}{4},\frac{1}{2},\frac{3}{4}\}$, ... does not converge to the whole interval. Each added set nests all previous, so just look at the limit of the added sets. It is the set of all binary rational numbers, does not even include all rationals. The characteristic function similarly does not converge to $1$.

0

Assuming that the sequence of finite sets is increasing, $A_i \subseteq A_{n+i}$ :

This is essentially the form of convergence used in defining length of curves, and the Riemann integral. There limits of finite partitions of an interval are taken with respect to refinement. Partitions are equivalent to the set of endpoints of the intervals.

For reasonable increasing sequences of finite sets, there is convergence of the normalized measures that assign equal mass to every point in the set and have total mass $1$. If the limit of these measures (for intervals) is the length measure on $[0,1]$, or whatever other interval the points were selected from, and the finite sets were formed by adding one point at a time, the sequence of points is called equidistributed.

When the points are a sequence of independent random samples from a probability distribution, convergence of the uniform measures on the finite samples is the Law of Large Numbers.

When the points are a (generic) trajectory of a dynamical system, the convergence of finite atomic measures is the Ergodic Theorem.

Another commonly used, though somewhat tautological, concept of convergence is that the union of an increasing collection of sets is the direct limit of the collection. The pointwise limit of characteristic functions of an increasing sequence of finite sets is the characteristic function of the union.

The concept of a net (vs sequence) is also pertinent.

zyx
  • 35,436
  • For equidistribution, read "the limit is ... proportional to the length measure". – zyx Mar 19 '13 at 01:24
0

Take the product topology for $\mathbb{R}^\mathbb{R}$ with basis given by elements of the form $\cap_{j\in J}\pi^{-1}_j(V_j)$ where $J$ is finite, $V_j$ is an usual open set and $\pi_j$ are canonical projections.

I believe you want to prove that there is no sequence of finite $A_n\subset \mathbb{R}$ such that

$$(\chi_{A_n})_{n\in \mathbb{N} } \rightarrow \chi_{\mathbb{R}}$$

Suppouse by way of contradiction that there is such a sequence. As $\chi_{\mathbb{R}}\in \pi^{-1}_x(1/2,3/2)$, we have a certain $n_o(x)$ such that for $n>n_o(x)$, we have $\chi_{A_n}\in \pi^{-1}_x(1/2,3/2)$. In other words, $\chi_{A_n}(x)\in(1/2,3/2)\Rightarrow \chi_{A_n}(x)=1\Rightarrow x\in A_n$ for every $n>n_o(x)$.

Clearly $\cup_{n\in\mathbb{N}}A_n$ must yield all of $\mathbb{R}$. But this is countable! Absurd!

Kadmos
  • 1,907
0

Piggybacking on this answer, here are two more notions of convergence where finite sets can converge to "larger" sets. Let $d(x,A) = \inf_{y \in A} \|x-y\|$.

  1. Convergence in Hausdorff metric, which for $\mathbb{R}^n$ has the representation $$ d_H(A,B) = \sup_{x \in \mathbb{R}^n} |d(x,A) - d(x,B)|, $$ i.e., $A_k \xrightarrow{H} A$ if $d_H(A_k, A) \to 0$. This concept of set convergence is essentially classical now, and it's used in all corners of analysis and geometry.

  2. Convergence in the sense of Painlevé-Kuratowski. For the sequence of sets $\{A_k\}_{k=1}^{\infty}$, define \begin{align} \limsup_{k \to \infty} A_k &= \{x : \liminf_{k \to \infty} d(x, A_k) = 0\}, \\ \liminf_{k \to \infty} A_k &= \{x : \limsup_{k \to \infty} d(x, A_k) = 0\}, \end{align} and say that $A_k \xrightarrow{PK} A$ if $$ \limsup_{k \to \infty} A_k \subset A \subset \liminf_{k \to \infty} A_k. $$

Both notions are sensitive to the topology of $\mathbb{R}^n$, which is relevant to your original question. Since $d_H(A, \mathrm{cl\ } A) = 0$, the Hausdorff metric is only a "metric" on the nonempty closed subsets of $\mathbb{R}^n$. On $\mathbb{R}^n$, Painlevé-Kuratowski convergence can be induced by a metric such as $$ d_{PK}(A,B) = \int_0^{\infty} \sup_{\|x\| \leq r} |d(x,A) - d(x,B)| \ e^{-r} \ dr, $$ and one can verify that $d_{PK} \leq d_H$. Hence, $A_k \xrightarrow{H} A$ implies $A_k \xrightarrow{PK} A$, although the reverse is not true.

In broad terms, the difference in how the Hausdorff and Painlevé-Kuratowski convergences topologize the closed subsets of $\mathbb{R}^n$ is analogous to the difference between "uniform convergence" and "uniform convergence on compact sets" of functions. The following example is illustrative.

Example. Taking the closed balls $B_\rho = \{x : \|x\| \leq \rho \}$, it is natural to ask if $B_\rho \to \mathbb{R}^n$ as $\rho \to \infty$. We first observe that $d(x, \mathbb{R}^n) = 0$ for all $x$. On the other hand, $d(x, B_\rho) = \max\{0, \|x\|-\rho\}$, so by making $\|x\|$ arbitrarily large we see that $d_H(B_\rho, \mathbb{R}^n) = +\infty$ for each $\rho$. Conversely, $\sup_{\|x\| \leq r} d(x, B_\rho) = \max\{0, r-\rho\}$, which implies that $$ d_{PK}(B_\rho, \mathbb{R}^n) = \int_\rho^\infty (r - \rho) e^{-r} \ dr = e^{-\rho}, $$ so $d_{PK}(B_\rho, \mathbb{R}^n) \to 0$ as $\rho \to \infty$.

In other words, compact sets cannot converge to $\mathbb{R}^n$ under Hausdorff metric, but they can in the sense of Painlevé-Kuratowski.

In your example, taking $A_k = \{j \cdot 2^{-k} : 1 \leq j < 2^k \}$ and $A = [0,1]$, we obtain $d_H(A_k, A) = 2^{-(k+1)}$, which is achieved at any "midpoint" between the dyadic rationals of $A_k$. Hence, $A_k \xrightarrow{H} A$ and consequently $A_k \xrightarrow{PK} A$.

Another example: let $\mathbb{Q} = \{q_1, q_2, \dots\}$ be an enumeration of the rationals, and let $A_k = \{q_1, \dots, q_k\}$. Then $d_H(A_k, \mathbb{R}) = +\infty$ for each $k$, while $d_{PK}(A_k, \mathbb{R}) \to 0$.