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Modern Science is divided into three major branches:

$1.$ Natural Sciences (Includes Physics, Chemistry and Biology) Which studies nature in its broadest sense.

$2.$ Social Sciences (Includes Economics, Sociology and Biology) Which study Individual and societies.

$3.$ Formal Sciences (Includes logic, Mathematics and Theoretical computer science) Which study abstract concepts.

There is disagreement, however on whether the formal sciences actually constitute a science as they do not rely on empirical evidence (i.e. Information received by means of senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behaviour through experimentation)

My question is what is the reason for saying that mathematics does not constitute science even if use experimental approach so often in mathematics also?

In words of Paul Halmos When you try a theorem, you don’t just list the hypothesis and then start to reason. What you do is trial and error, experimentation and guesswork. You want to find out what the facts are and what you do is in that respect similar to what a laboratory technician does. In fact there are so many evidences that mathematics is as experimental as other sciences. For instance consider

$\color{purple}{n^2+n+41\ is \ a \ prime \ number\ for \ all \ natural \ numbers}$.

We check this for natural numbers and find out that it is true for numbers $1-39$ but fails at n=40 so this result is not true. Same way we see that $\color{navy}{F_n=2^{2^n}+1 \ is \ prime \ for \ n=1,2,3,4}$ but not afterwards.

One reason I can think is experimental mathematics is relatively newer and we haven’t accepted its importance .

Other reason can be that in other sciences you take some observations to support, refute or validate a hypothesis but in Mathematics your result might come out to be false after so many positive observations or sometimes you cannot prove/get close to validity of result even after so many observations. Like in given examples:

$\color{brown}{a.} \ \ (n^{17}+9,(n+1)^{17}+9)=1$

(First counter example is $n=84244329255928893292881973223089006724459420460792433$) A physicist would be convinced by experimenting even less than $33$ times :)

$\color{blue}{b.}$ Smallest value of $n$ for which $f(n)=991n^2+1$ is perfect square is $n=12055735790331359447442538767$

$\color{red}{c.} \ \ 1000099n^2+1$ is perfect square for first number having $1116$ digits

I might be wrong in some places so please mention if you find any.

References: Wikipedia articles ( Experimental mathematics, Science)

  • Your argument would be easier to follow if you included even a single example of the kind of statement you're objecting to. My university included mathematics among the sciences. – Andrew Dudzik Dec 12 '19 at 17:24
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    The issue you raise has more to do with language rather than mathematics. – herb steinberg Dec 12 '19 at 17:27
  • @Slade I didn't find any such statement that's why I asked this question. I have read the same thing on wikipedia (mathematics is less of experimental and more of theoretical science) and have heard my professors saying same thing time by time but neither wikipedia not them has any reasonable argument to support their statement. – Vidyanshu Mishra Dec 12 '19 at 17:28

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While experiments play an important role in mathematics, it's not the same as the role they play in the experimental sciences. In the latter experimentation is truly indispensable; in the former, it is instead a source of inspiration, with the actual "finished product" being a mathematical proof which could in principle have been discovered "ex nihilo."

Of course, mathematics isn't actually done without experimentation in practice. This is especially true if we construe the word "experiment" to include proof attempts, which I would argue we should: often the intuition for a proof of one theorem comes from the difficulties one hits in trying to prove the opposite. But this is a fact about practice as opposed to nature; a computer can search blindly for a proof of a given sentence and the validity of such a proof (if discovered after all) is independent of the fact that there was no experimentation employed in its discovery. (Ignore for a moment the fact that this blind proof search is infeasibly time-consuming; again, that's not the point here.)

So the question comes down to this:

When we declare something an "experimental science," what role must experimentation play in it?

I - and I think many others - would argue that it's not enough for experimentation to be important in practice; rather, to genuinely be an experimental science, a subject must take experimentation to be of central importance. If we accept this, then mathematics is not an experimental science since the centrally important objects are mathematical proofs rather than mathematical experiments.

Noah Schweber
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  • The question isn't whether mathematics is experimental science or not. The wikipedia article I referred to says there is a disagreement on whether the formal sciences (including maths) constitute science or not as they do not rely on empirical evidences. But I think I have given ample examples to show that experimental approach leads to inspiration and I think we both agree in that. So question really is how much importance of experimentation in a subject is must for it to qualify as science. – Vidyanshu Mishra Dec 12 '19 at 17:53
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    @VidyanshuMishra You asked "My question is what is the reason for saying that mathematics does not constitute science even if use experimental approach so often in mathematics also?" I think the answer I've given above addresses this: I've pointed out a fundamental difference in the role experiment plays in mathematics vs. things more commonly considered experimental sciences. Your comment "question really is how much importance of experimentation in a subject is must for it to qualify as science" is shifting the goalposts; if you want to ask that then you should clarify that in your question. – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 17:55
  • We know that physics and chemistry constitute science but mathematics doesn't (or does, that's the topic of discussion). The reason given for that is mathematics doesn't rely on observation and documentation of patterns and behaviour through experiments. So I suppose physics chemistry and other sciences rely enough on experimentation. But I have given many examples which I think are valid and qualify the definition of experiment, aren't these examples enough to show that in mathematics also rely on empirical evidences just like other sciences and hence must qualify as science. – Vidyanshu Mishra Dec 12 '19 at 18:06
  • @VidyanshuMishra What do you mean by "rely on"? That's the point of my answer - that while experiment plays a role in mathematics, math doesn't rely on experiment in the same way that science does. In particular, see my point about blindly-computer-generated proof, in which mathematically valid results are produced without any experiment (unless one stretches the term "experiment" so far as to lose all meaning). – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 18:08
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    The fact that math without experimentation is even conceivable as a thing indicates a fundamental difference - "physics without any experiments" doesn't even make sense as a phrase. – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 18:11
  • Now I get your point. Thank you for explaining patiently. I'll acknowledge it with my upvote :) – Vidyanshu Mishra Dec 12 '19 at 18:15
  • @VidyanshuMishra Not at all - would you like me to edit my answer to include the content of this comment thread? – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 18:16
  • Yes ofc. That will be a good things for others reading your answer too. – Vidyanshu Mishra Dec 12 '19 at 18:17
  • "which could in principle have been discovered "ex nihilo."" That's an absurd. I mean, people can have that sort of religious belief that such a thing exists, but that is neither how proofs work, nor it is a scientific claim, because, in particular, it isn't falsifiable. – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 21:12
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    @egorovik I'm not sure what you're claiming. I described exactly how that could be done - brute-force computer search doesn't involve any experimentation besides checking whether something is a valid proof, which - again - stretches the notion of "experiment" to the point of nigh-meaninglessness. Indeed, every theorem could in principle be discovered in this way, although of course it's infeasibly inefficient. – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 21:16
  • (Perhaps the issue is a misunderstanding of the term "proof" - I'm using it here in its formal sense. Human-written "proofs" are approximations of these - essentially, a formalist interprets them as outlines of actual proofs.) – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 21:19
  • @NoahSchweber Well, you clearly have an inappropriate notion of experiment, that is pretty much only your notion, if you think that a physical computer calculating in the real world is not an experiment. – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 21:19
  • @egorovik OK, whatever. As before, I give up - I don't see the point in further discussion with you. – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 21:20
  • Amen!${}{}{}{}$ – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 21:21
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This is more of a question in philosophy and semantics. The question of whether or not we define mathematics as a science is not a functionally useful question by itself. Its usefulness arises when we compare and contrast how math and science are related in their methodology and application.


Demarcation

For starters, demarcation of the sciences is a fundamental problem in the philosophy of science, but there is no such analogue in mathematics. There is not a singular answer of what makes something considered "science". Without getting too deep into specifics, there is a gradient of what is considered psuedoscience versus science, which is generally the same metric we use to label "hard sciences" versus "soft sciences", very similar to the differentiation you describe as "natural" versus "social" sciences.

On the other hand, classifying something as math is more straightforward. The only relevant question is whether or not the statement is well-founded under some axiomatic system. (My wording here may not be technical enough, feel free to correct me.)

Methodology

While math can rely on experimental computations as evidence, they never constitute a real proof. Math can rely on hard logical proofs that (under a certain axiomatic system) can be guaranteed to never be wrong (assuming the proof is constructed correctly). We can demonstrate with absolute certainty that there are infinite prime numbers.

Like you mentioned before, science relies on empirical evidence, so we can never use a purely logical proof for anything scientific. We apply mathematical models to our scientific theories because the empirical evidence lines up with it, but we can never be sure that there aren't any exceptions that break under that model. Consider classical mechanics vs quantum mechanics. We used to believe that we can just add velocities linearly, because under every empirical measure it was close enough to being correct. If we treat a set of empirical data as a set of discrete points under some function, there will always be an infinite (and uncountable) number of functions that satisfy those points. Science aims to find the simplest function that models the data and corrects for accuracy over time as new information arises.

To make matters even more difficult, science is rarely (possibly never) a closed system. We can idealize closed systems in order to attempt to understand something about the system, just as how we apply mathematical models to our data, but almost no scientific finding occurs in a truly closed system. Our empirical measurements are always prone to be altered by something outside of the context of our findings. This is not the case in mathematics. We may see an overlap of different fields of math, but it is always self-contained within the axioms, which form a closed system.

Application

Because of the reasons listed above, scientific discoveries are structurally different in application. As findings are produced, we need to update the meta data and conclusions accordingly. This could mean that established findings could be refuted and overturned within the community. Findings that reference those findings would then need to be revised or looked over again. This doesn't really happen much in math unless there is an objective logical error found within a paper. Even the cases where something similar to this happens, the rigor of modern mathematics makes this less and less likely, and often times it could just be working under a different context, which is valid as long as it is self-contained.

Most all sciences are built upon the formal sciences, or math. No matter what field, all results and conclusions need to be founded logically, and the nature of this logic's existence is just accepted, despite its intangibility. There is a debate about whether math was discovered or invented. The school of thought that math objects just inherently exist is called Platonism. The school of thought that math objects are the result of human-invented rules is formalism. If you accept the Platonism position, you could argue that math is a science, as these are observations on existing objects. If you accept the formalism position, then this contradicts the idea that we are studying the natural world, but rather manmade constructs and ideas.

Epistemology

Humans are inherently inductive learners. Learning is a process that requires a balance between hard memorization of previous outcomes and abstracting concepts and generalizations from them. For instance, if you touch a hot surface and feel pain, inductive reasoning would lead you to believe that you would not want to touch other similar hot surfaces. There is no logical reason to assume that other hot surfaces would similarly cause you pain outside of induction. You could argue that scientific studies can help explain the concepts of heat, touch, and pain, but remember that scientific reasoning is also inductive by its definition.

While math is largely a deductive process, humans gather inspiration about how to engage in the process through inductive reasoning. We can find a conjecture that we attempt to approach by some inductive process until we find the deductive proof. In this way, both science and math are the same. You could argue that any field that ever existed similarly requires inductive reasoning, but the goal of science and math is to formalize the inductive process into something more measurable.

zhuli
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Science is falsifiable. You being with a statement and look for means by which to disprove it. Advances in science change the information to better reflect the empirical data by slowly overturning the existing model. It's temporal and mutable.

By comparison mathematics is immortal. Once a theorem is proved it's proved forever. There is no way to falsify it because the proof ensure it's always true with the given axioms. The proofs Euclid constructed over a thousand years ago is equally valid today. Nothing will ever change that. While experiments can motivate a conjecture they don't actually prove anything and so no mathematics has been done.

CyclotomicField
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    Holding forever doesn't mean not falsifiable. Falsifiable means that one can create experiments to test a property and/or its consequences. Whether the result of the experiment we think is always going to be positive or not is unrelated to the property of being falsifiable. For example, $1+1=2$ is falsifiable. You can make lots of experiments that test it. – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 17:52
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    @egorovik "$1+1=2$ is falsifiable. You can make lots of experiments that test it." What experiments do you have in mind exactly? Note that something like "when you put one orange next to another orange, you have two oranges" does not count: formal arithmetic is a distinct thing from physical processes which one claims embody it. If we put two oranges together and magically wound up with three oranges, that would tell us something about oranges, not something about arithmetic. – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 17:57
  • @NoahSchweber You are confused. The very formal process of proving it is an experiment that lives in the physical world. It is hard to conceive its failure, but it is an assumption that we make because the universe seems to always work that way. – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 18:00
  • @egorovik That stretches the term "experiment" to the point that it has basically no meaning. If you're willing to go that far, then fine, but that removes all value from the question. (It also misses a key point of experiment: that reproduction has value. Once something is formally proved, it's formally proved, there's no point in repeating that formal proof.) – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 18:01
  • @NoahSchweber On the contrary. Assuming that a proof exists outside the universe is stretching the term proof. – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 18:02
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    @egorovik OK, whatever. If you're really going to go that broad then everything is experiment, so I don't see the point of continuing this conversation. – Noah Schweber Dec 12 '19 at 18:03
  • @NoahSchweber Your conclusion is wrong. What I said doesn't imply that everything isn't an experiment. More over, whether everything is an experiment or not is unrelated to whether something is or isn't falsifiable. There needs to be relevant experiments and lots of mathematical assertions do have relevant experiments that test them. – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 18:05
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    Be careful talking about "immortal mathematics". Frege proved lots of things in his book, but it all crumbled when Russell found inconsistency in his axioms. We haven't found an inconsistency in ZFC yet, but who knows? What we can say is validity of a proof over a given foundational system, but not necessarily truth or correctness. – user21820 Dec 12 '19 at 18:06
  • @NoahSchweber "Once something is formally proved, it's formally proved, there's no point in repeating that formal proof." This is an assumption on the nature of this universe. Because we always experience a formal proof (not only its consequences but the very act of proving) behaving exactly the same, doesn't imply that that will always happen. It is part of the assumptions that it will. And that property is quite falsifiable by experimentation. – egorovik Dec 12 '19 at 18:13
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Asking whether mathematics should be called a science is the same kind of question as asking whether a plant should be called a living thing. In other words, it is purely a matter of either convention or opinion, and hence does not belong on Math SE.

However, there is a specific mathematics-based sense in which mathematics is very clearly distinguished from empirical sciences. Every empirical experiment in science only gives you a finite amount of data that you hope will support a hypothesis about a typically infinite domain. We can do so because we make some helpful assumptions, such as that the true relationship is continuous almost everywhere, so that our data is actually representative of the part of the domain that we can 'reach' via our experiments. We also try to find the simplest explanation that fits the data. But in many cases we can never prove our hypothesis right, due not only to experimental error but also the fact that we cannot exclude some pathological possibilities (such as that the universe conspires to feed us misleading experimental data).

In very strong contrast, mathematics revolves around finding rigorous proofs of theorems in a chosen foundational system, or guessing true statements about a chosen structure such as the natural numbers. Once a proof is found and checked, especially if formally verified, there can be no doubt that the statement is logically necessary given the chosen foundational assumptions. Your kind of large counter-examples to mathematical conjectures are really very different from counter-examples to empirically testable scientific hypotheses, because those conjectures are discrete and there is no expectation of any 'continuity', which should also explain why such pathological counter-examples do not show up in empirical science because every hypothesis can only be tested within a certain range, and it is usually about a continuous phenomenon. One is not justified in claiming empirical support for a hypothesis beyond the range 'covered' by the experiments.

Nevertheless, there are a number of examples of 'empirical' experiments in mathematics, even though this is not generally considered to be mathematical results, but merely 'evidence' for conjectures. For example, the k-tuple conjecture is widely considered to be very likely true, based on both empirical evidence as well as various heuristics. Obviously, no empirical test can possibly check the limit of asymptotic density of anything at all, but that does not stop people from believing that the numbers 'look like expected if the conjecture is true', which lends a weak kind of evidence to the conjecture, in much the same way as some statistical tests lend evidence to not rejecting the null hypothesis. Similarly, people believe that $π$ is a normal number, based on statistical tests, but it remains a conjecture.

Also, it may be that more and more mathematical theorems are found that are like the 4-colour theorem, in requiring significant computational effort to prove, which can be considered to be empirical in some sense, though without the experimental errors that come with any empirical scientific experiments.

user21820
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