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Have you noticed how almost anyone writing a text in the above mentioned category starts their work with examples and proofs fleshing out the minute details (stuff that you can do without the author doing it for you), but as you progress further, the details are lost and all you're left with are wordy, hand-wavy reasonings and appeals to the reader to fill in the pot-holes in the exercises? I understand that the reader has to walk the walk also, but it feels like no body is actually interested in teaching the stuff and most of the stuff is just left to the reader as an exercise. I've noticed this happens more frequently in the area of algebraic geometry than anywhere else. Look at the papers some of these people are writing too. The easy stuff is explained ad nauseam but when the going gets tough, you're presented with paragraphs of 'explanations' instead of just writing the full proof clearly in the language of mathematics like you're supposed to be. Anyway, would anyone else like to comment - in agreement or not - and share their thoughts on this? Or is it just me that feels this way?

J. Doe
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    Examples of this? – Wuestenfux May 10 '20 at 09:02
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    @Wuestenfux Hartshorne's Algebraic Geometry. But, actually, I'd say almost every graduate text is an example. – J. Doe May 10 '20 at 09:05
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    @J.Doe Pick better books then. I have used many books with on the cover "Graduate texts in mathematics" that teach the stuff well.. – J. De Ro May 10 '20 at 09:09
  • Hartshorne is a compactification of EGA, you can find all the dirty details in there – Moon Bears-C- May 10 '20 at 09:10
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    @MoonBears-C- Well, it's not in English. But, even if I could read it, it isn't the best book for everyone. Say I just want to know what a scheme is before moving on to what I'm doing, why do I have to read 300 pages of EGA first to reach the point? – J. Doe May 10 '20 at 09:28
  • @ε-δ At the moment, that's really the only choice one has. – J. Doe May 10 '20 at 09:30
  • @J.Doe As someone else commented, you can read the original books written by the master. – J. De Ro May 10 '20 at 09:33

2 Answers2

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A graduate maths book is not a novel.

What I mean by this is that it's not something you pick up and just read your way through, nor it is something where the difficulty level doesn't change as you're reading it (though there may, certainly, be experimental novels where the difficulty level changes as you progress). This is also where the graduate text differs from an undergraduate text where the difficulty level stays fairly constant throughout the text.

Why? Because graduate text books are written to serve different purposes. An undergraduate text serves as an introduction to a subject, and while it might go into more depth on some topics, those are still considered introductory topics. All the details are provided because they are an introduction and part of the aim is to show the reader how to think about these things for themselves. Like when reading an annotated chess game, the author is providing key insights into what's gone on and highlighting points of interest to help the reader. In a graduate text the reader is annotating as they go.

A graduate text can be a reference text: its job is to provide lots of results that are commonly known, or expected to be known, by researchers in the area so they can reference them. This can be for citing them in papers, and it can be for looking the result up and checking what the hypotheses are and how/if they can be weakened. These books are definitely not novels and are not intended for reading straight through.

A graduate text can also be a teaching text, in which case the expectation is that the reader will work out the details for themselves. Results are given with directions for thought and key insights provided, but the reader now has to really think about things. A chapter isn't bedtime reading, it's three weeks of work. But the payoff is significant; you get a deeper understanding of the subject and how everything fits together. And, crucially, you can now go back and read that chapter easily because all the things needed to understand are now in your mind as well as on the page.

I said these books aren't like novels. If they were, they'd be linear and most aren't; they have a core and then they move out to areas that the authors are most interested in, missing out whole swathes of possible material and leaving it to be covered by another book or other papers/teachers/internet articles. If a graduate text were a crime novel then the victim's name would be revealed somewhere in the middle and then there'd be four chapters on why the room the murder was committed in was especially interesting. The best way to view these books, really, is as a very large exercise in understanding a subject properly.

Finally, no-one wants the book to be not understood. The author has a certain amount of pride at stake, in that they want their book to be referenced and talked about. The published wants to make (some) money from this book. The readers want something valuable in return for their money.

postmortes
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  • Hi. Thank you for your answer. I can understand that Grad-level texts can be large tomes meant to be used as a key to the subject. They do serve a purpose. I'm just angry about how in some cases (even when the subject area isn't very new) you would find that almost every book on the subject is written in this manner; without a simple exposition and where brevity takes precedence over clarity. I can even understand that exercises are important and necessary. However, it gets annoying when every other proof is an exercise - especially in the beginning. – J. Doe May 11 '20 at 17:40
  • Finally, and I don't think you meant it to taken like that, but your last paraghaph is exactly the kind of reasoning that I think is wrong (and looks to be the main reasoning for most authors): writing an introductory text shouldn't be just for the ego boost or a means for anyone to feel more important. – J. Doe May 11 '20 at 17:50
  • @J.Doe it does, and I sympathise with you. It's like that, to some extent even for experienced mathematicians looking at a new area or sub-area. The best counter to getting angry though is to beat the book -- figure out the answer, work out what was missing, and prove that the book isn't better than you :) It may also be worth remembering that the publishers will set a page limit on authors, so they can't put everything in... – postmortes May 11 '20 at 17:50
  • @J.Doe no, you have the last paragraph right. No-one would write anything (worthwhile) if there wasn't a payoff for it -- otherwise you wouldn't have to pay for any books. Sometimes the payoff is the ego-boost. I'm not saying this is right, just that this is the way the world is, and so we have to find ways to live with it. – postmortes May 11 '20 at 17:52
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I think that it's a part of good training to try to take the fundamentals and explain them in overly amount of detail. As students comfort with the subject increases, they should be asked to fill in more and more details on their own. Now it's only natural to get stuck or bogged down on some detail, but that's what professors and friends are for - to discuss the subject. Even if you get stuck and can't figure it out, but you practice communicating what you're stuck on and why you're stuck you'll form better relationships with the people around you and learn as you go.

Plus it's nigh impossible to include absolutely all of the details in an argument. Try to prove the crossing number of the trefoil is three. I bet in full rigor it's at least 10-15 pages. This is absurd, it's best to communicate the idea rather than full rigor ~ but if you're asked to supply the rigorous argument one should be able to.

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    Not everyone goes to (or has friends that go to) Harvard. None of the kind of stuff that I'm talking about can be reasonably discussed with anyone (even the professors) in most places - it's highly unlikely to bump into people who know everything you can ask them about. Imagine you're self studying and you get stuck; shouldn't the author be there for you? And if it's unreasonable to write the full proofs, I'd say it's unreasonably to imagine the full subject can be discussed in a reasonable manner in your 500 pg book. Why don't they write in parts? – J. Doe May 10 '20 at 09:15
  • That's exactly why places like stack exchange exist. These books are usually written by professors intending it to be used for a course, with the knowledge that professors will guide students. Sure it's not ideal, but what can you do about it? I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find someone who's willing to talk about these things with you. What're you learning that's so far beyond everyone around you? – Moon Bears-C- May 10 '20 at 09:18
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    @ Moon I'm not learning anything that's beyond most everyone here. That's not the point - the point is that books ought to be written so that people like me who don't have anyone to guide them through it and who get stuck after reading every other paragraph shouldn't have to come to stack exchange and ask questions. It's very inefficient to begin with and you can't go very far like this. – J. Doe May 10 '20 at 09:24
  • I'd imagine most professors try to satisfy this, but there's too many variables. What might seem easy to you and not needing explanation could be quite difficult for someone else. Also there's an issue with experts being so familiar with the subject that they forget what it's like to be stuck on a particular concept. I think you're far too idealistic in the capabilities of most authors and far too pessimistic in reader's abilities to figure things out. You can almost define mathematics as being stuck on something which ended up being not that hard to begin with – Moon Bears-C- May 10 '20 at 09:28
  • @ Moon I'm saying they're providing the details for the easy stuff which I'll say shows they know how the subject should be presented and also gives evidence that they're not blind to the fact that everyone reading the book is an expert. Especially authors writing texts that are meant to be first introductions - after a few pages, it's like they're in a discussion with their colleagues. I might be a bit too idealist about the capabilities of writers, but as for the reader I think it's better and more reasonable to assume you're teaching to the dullest student you've ever had. – J. Doe May 10 '20 at 09:40
  • Again this is an unreasonable standard for a mathematics graduate text. Sure there are some notoriously difficult ones that are exceptionally unclear (looking at you Schulten's 3-manifolds) but it's not really something anyone can fix. The point of mathematics is to figure things out ~ if you're constantly getting stuck on everything that you're reading then you might not be fully prepared to read that material. Sometimes it's more practical to just try and pick up the main ideas on a first reading than it is to demand mastery. Masters of a subject aren't forged by a semester of reading. – Moon Bears-C- May 10 '20 at 09:45