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While I was trying to prove Euclid's Divison algorithm, I came across a certain problem. Let me share the proof and the problem.

Lemma : Let $ a , b \in \mathbb{N} , a > b $ then there exists $q , r$ , $ a = bq + r , 0 \leq r < b$

Proof : Let $S$ = {$a - bq : a - bq > 0 , a - bq \in \mathbb{N}$} , Since , it is a subset of the natural numbers then there exists a least element (Well Ordering Principle) . Let that be $ r \Rightarrow a - bq = r $ . If $r \geq b $ then $ r - b \geq 0 \Rightarrow a - bq - b = a - b(q + 1) \geq 0$ (I am assuming that $\mathbb{N}$ contains $0$) So it is a contradiction. Now, my doubt is why not the "assumption that the symbol $r$ leads to the contradiction rather than the assumption that $ b \leq r $? (Since we made two assumptions either one of them must be wrong because they are contradicting each other). This question may seem very strange, but I think that this question may lead to a more rigorous understanding of proofs.

Euclid's Divison Algorithm

Theorem: The process: $\\ $

$ a = bq_1 + r_1 , 0 \leq r_1 < b$ $\\ $

$ b = r_1q_2 + r_2 , $ $ 0 \leq r_2 < r_1 $

$ r_1 = r_2q_3 + r_3 $ $0 \leq r_3 < r_2 $

and so on, must terminate and the last remainder will be the gcd of $a, b$

Proof :

We again see that $r_1 > r_2 > r_3 > .. $ This process must terminate due to the well-ordering principle.

Let the process terminate here :

$ r_{n+1} - r_{n+2}q_{n+3} = t$ , if $t \geq 1 $ then we have to do another step which is a contradiction to our assumption that it will terminate here $ r_{n+1} - r_{n+2}q_{n+3} = t$ $\Rightarrow t < 1 \Rightarrow t = 0$. So my question is : Why not the assumption that it will terminate here $ r_{n+1} - r_{n+2}q_{n+3} = t$ was false rather than the assumption that if $ t \geq 1 $ this was false. The gcd part can easily be done from here. I was trying to prove my questions by the way of contradiction but didn't make any progress except going in a loop. And I felt like the previous question is like why when we take a random triangle and prove a geometric fact about it the proof holds good? The reason I read in a book called "proofs" was that we are taking general facts and proving it on a special case which doesn't affect the proof. I hope I have made my question clear if not please post your questions and I'll answer them.

  • In both cases we are assigning symbols to denote something. That alone cannot cause a contradiction. – player3236 Sep 07 '20 at 04:22
  • What assumption is there in the equivalent sentence "Give '$a - bq$' the label '$r$'."? Labels are not assumptions. An assumption must have a truth value (which you assert is "true"). – Eric Towers Sep 07 '20 at 04:37
  • True and false are truth values. Propositions (in the sense of propositional logic) have truth values. "$1 = 1$" has the truth value of true. "$1 = 0$" has the truth value of false. An assumption sets the truth value of a proposition to true. Labelling an expression (such as the use of $r$) does not assert the truth value of any proposition so is not an assumption. – Eric Towers Sep 07 '20 at 05:01
  • @EricTowers what do you mean by "An assumption sets the truth value of a proposition to true."? –  Sep 07 '20 at 05:04
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    @hourglass : You have used the word "assumption" several times in your Question. You have not defined it anywhere. Why should I? – Eric Towers Sep 07 '20 at 05:05
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    @hourglass : Did you follow the link in my comment? What part of the discussion of truth value and proposition at that page were you unable to follow? Then, given that platform from which to have a conversation, until you define "assumption", there is no way to address your question using the term. You don't seem to understand what the term means, so there is no way to interpret your use of it. – Eric Towers Sep 07 '20 at 05:11
  • Is your name on this site "hourglass" different from the name your parents gave you? If I refer to you as "hourglass" in my comment, am I making an assumption about you which has a useful truth value, or am I simply using a name to make sure we know we are talking about an identifiable person (your two names don't make you two different people). $r$ is just being used as a name for something so we know what we are talking about. – Mark Bennet Sep 07 '20 at 15:23

2 Answers2

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It seems you're asking two related, but slightly different questions, so I will separate my answers.

Can a definition "assumption" lead to a contradiction?

why not the "assumption that the symbol r leads to the contradiction rather than the assumption that $b\le r$?

This question may seem strange from the perspective of someone very used to normal mathematical proofs, but I think it's a fair question.

I claim that "let $r=a-bq$", or any other definition of a symbol/shorthand like that, can't lead to a contradiction on its own. Let's say we have a proof like "…Let $r=a-bq$.…This is a contradiction." Then we can delete the sentence "Let $r=a-bq$." and replace every other instance of $r$ with $(a-bq)$. Since $r=a-bq$, this won't change any of the other lines in a meaningful way, and we'll still have a contradiction at the end. Since the contradiction exists even without the "Let $r=a-bq$." part, that couldn't have led to the contradiction.


What's going on with the termination assumption?

Why not the assumption that it will terminate here $r_{n+1}-r_{n+2}q_{n+3}=t$

Here, it may not be obvious what the proof is doing/trying to express. If the proof says "Let the process terminate here: $r_{n+1}-r_{n+2}q_{n+3}=t$.", that's shorthand for something like "let $n$ and $t$ be the numbers where the termination step (that you already know must exist) is '$r_{n+1}-r_{n+2}q_{n+3}=t$'." Since this is just defining variables $n$ and $t$, then just like the question I addressed above, it can't lead to any contradictions on its own.

Mark S.
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You best do it by induction on $b$.

If $b=0$, then the algorithm doesn't even start, so it obviously terminates.

Suppose now $b>0$ and that the algorithm terminates for every number less than $b$.

By Euclidean division, we can write $a=bq+r$, with $0\le r<b$. By the induction hypothesis, the algorithm applied to $(b,r)$ terminates. Therefore also the algorithm applied to $(a,b)$ terminates, precisely with one more step than the one for $(b,r)$.


Alternative proof, by contradiction. Suppose there are pairs $(a,b)$ such that the algorithm doesn't terminate. Among them choose a pair with minimal $b$. Then do Euclidean division $a=bq+r$ and note you get a contradiction, because the algorithm applied to $(b,r)$ cannot terminate, but $r<b$.


Some way or another, induction has to be used. In the second proof I used the fact that every nonempty set of natural numbers has a minimum, which is equivalent to the induction principle (when we're in the framework of set theory).

egreg
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