I am looking for a very basic answer, I am in 10th grade and studying it for a project. I don't understand what the sets are referring to. Is it nodes? Edges? Axioms? Vertices? Or does it just depend?
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6You can define a topology on any set whatsoever. Be it is the set of edges of a graphs, the set of axioms of ZFC or the set of apples in your back yard. – Wojowu Jan 18 '21 at 21:17
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1What ever you want. It is a complete and pure abstraction. You can make a topology based on ANYTHING. The color of their socks, going eeny meeny miny moe, putting every single set in there, not putting any sets you don't have to in there. What ever you want. – fleablood Jan 18 '21 at 21:21
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1Everything in math is either a set or an element of a set. There is nothing more to it. A "number" is just a element of $\Bbb R$; a "function" is actually defined as a particular subset of another set; etc. – pancini Jan 18 '21 at 21:24
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The ONLY conditions are.... 1) the empty set is in it 2) the universal set is in it 3) Any union of sets in must also be in it 4) any finite intersection of sets in it must also be in it. Otherwise anything I want or don't want in it can be in it. For example I can make a topology on $\mathbb R$ where $\emptyset, \mathbb R$ and ${\pi, 42, \frac 12, e^{\sqrt 3}}$ are open sets. $\emptyset, \mathbb R$ and $\mathbb R\setminus {\pi, 42,\frac 12, e^{\sqrt 3}}$ are closed and all other sets are neither closed nor open. Why would I do this? Who the heck knows. But I could. – fleablood Jan 18 '21 at 21:26
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The point here is that a topological space carries no extra baggage. When we say "the circle" (written $S^1$), we don't mean "the circle in the $xy$-plane" or "the circle in three dimensions." It is just the circle itself as a pure, abstract thing. There is no notion of what is inside or outside of the circle, or how far apart the points are, etc. – pancini Jan 18 '21 at 21:26
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2Regarding the downvote, I actually think this question is appropriate for SE. It is a basic question, but the author gave the relevant context and has a sincere question/confusion. – pancini Jan 18 '21 at 21:29
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1"Regarding the downvote, I actually think this question is appropriate for SE. It is a basic question, but the author gave the relevant context and has a sincere question/confusion. " What downvote? Why would anyone downvote this? It's a legitimate question. That an OP won't know the answer to a question is never an acceptable reason for a downvote. One upvote on its way. – fleablood Jan 18 '21 at 21:31
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By the way, to the OP: topological spaces aren't unique in this way. In general, this is how all sorts of mathematical structures work: the elements of (say) a group can be whatever the heck. Topological spaces are in my experience harder to think about than groups for a couple reasons, so it may be worth thinking about groups as well in this context. – Noah Schweber Jan 18 '21 at 21:33
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2I wasn't doubting it had been downvoted. I was being rhetorical and expressing disgust at the practice of downvoting questions just because the OP doesn't know material backwards and forwards. After all that's the entire point of asking questions. – fleablood Jan 18 '21 at 21:40
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@fleablood Many people confuse "low effort" and "no context" with "elementary question," and it's frustrating. Looking back on some of my early questions, I'm glad people on SE took them seriously even though they seem silly now. It's a fun way to track my math progress through time also. Anyway I'm off-topic. – pancini Jan 18 '21 at 21:44
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1I sometimes received a downvote for questions with more than $20$ upvotes. I do not care anymore about them, if the vast majority sees it different. – Peter Jan 18 '21 at 21:47
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@fleablood Ah, sorry, I misread - my apologies. – Noah Schweber Jan 18 '21 at 22:02
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1@Peter Sure, but for new users it can have a meaningful impact. – Noah Schweber Jan 18 '21 at 22:02
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Given the headaches that were originally caused by mathematicians asking "What is a set?", I don't think that it's really a low-effort question especially for someone diving into topology and trying to work out what's so special about the sets there as compared to elsewhere. – ConMan Jan 18 '21 at 23:08
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Thank you all for your help! I don't want to cause any trouble, is there a better forum I can go to ask questions like these? I didn't mean to be too basic and I promise I looked all around before for the answer. – hadley Jan 19 '21 at 00:06
1 Answers
A set, in mathematics, is just a bunch of things. A set could be a bunch of numbers like $\{1, 2, 5, 1000\}$, or it could be a bunch of points on the surface of a sphere like $\{(x, y, z) : x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = 1\}$, or it could be a bunch of words like $\{\mbox{cat},\mbox{dog},\mbox{Ouagadougou}\}$.
Perhaps most confusingly, a set can be a bunch of other sets - for example, $\left\{ \left\{1, 2, 5, 1000\right\}, \left\{(x, y, z) : x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = 1\right\}, \left\{\mbox{cat},\mbox{dog},\mbox{Ouagadougou}\right\} \right\}$ is a valid, if not particularly useful, set.
A subset is a bunch of things inside a larger[1] set. For example, some of the subsets of $\{1, 2, 5, 1000\}$ are $\{1, 5\}$, $\{2\}$ and $\{1, 2, 5, 1000\}$ itself. Additionally, the set containing nothing, $\{\}$, sometimes written as $\varnothing$, is also a subset of that set - and, indeed, of every set in existence.
A topology is a way of defining which elements of a given set are somehow "close to" or "next to" or "linked to" each other, by listing out the subsets of the set that define "neighbourhoods" of associated points. The only rules for a topology are:
It must contain the empty set, as well as the original set.
If you take any combination of subsets from the list, and find all the elements they have in common (called the intersection of the sets), then the resulting set is also in the list.
If you take any combination of subsets from the list, and find all the elements they cover in total (called the union of the sets), then the resulting set is also in the list.
The simplest topology, and one that exists for any set, is the trivial topology consisting of the empty set and the set itself. So $\left\{ \varnothing, \left\{ \mbox{cat},\mbox{dog},\mbox{Ouagadougou}\right\} \right\}$ is a valid topology for the set $\left\{\mbox{cat},\mbox{dog},\mbox{Ouagadougou}\right\}$.
The other simple topology that exists for any set is the discrete topology, which is one that lists all possible subsets. For example, the discrete topology on $\{A, B, C\}$ is $\left\{ \varnothing, \{1\}, \{2\}, \{3\}, \{1, 2\}, \{1, 3\}, \{2, 3\}, \{1, 2, 3\}\right\}$.
If we take a more geometric view, then the elements of a topology are called the "open sets", and if your starting set is $\mathbb{R}$, which is the set of real numbers (or essentially the number line), then you can define your open sets as being the open intervals (i.e. ranges $(x, y)$ with $x \leq y$ that don't contain their endpoints) and saying that open sets are those that can be constructed from unions of those intervals. Similarly, you can define topologies on 2D or 3D space by starting with circles and spheres and building from there.
Somewhat nicely, we can look at some topological spaces (that is, sets with topologies on them) and say that they're equivalent - if we map the elements of one set to the elements of the other, then their topologies map in the same way. This is where the whole "a donut is the same as a coffee cup" stuff comes from - by defining the right topology, we can assign characteristics to certain types of sets, especially ones that have some kind of geometry involved, along with certain "valid" ways to reshape those sets, that lets you group them together by those common characteristics. For example, you can formalise the idea of a shape with a hole in it versus one without, such that we would say that any shapes with a single hole are somehow "topologically equivalent" to each other. We can even go so far as to start talking about joining topologies together or cutting them apart or "gluing" points together and looking at how their properties behave (for example, if you take the closed interval $[0, 1]$ and just say that for your purposes the points at $0$ and $1$ are joined to each other, you have a shape that is topologically equivalent to a circle).
Which then gets to graphs - in mathematics, a graph is a set of points (the nodes or vertices) along with a set of pairs of points (the edges). It doesn't necessarily have geometric properties - a database of Facebook users (nodes) and information on which ones are friends (edges) is a graph, as is a database that links people (nodes) to websites (also nodes) via their user accounts (edges). However, we can add some geometry by treating the edges as line segments, and that lets us look at how they relate to other things. For example, you can represent polyhedra as graphs (literally just taking their vertices and edges), and hence you can define a bunch of topologically equivalent polyhedra based on them having the same graph. So when you're working in this kind of space, the set that's of interest (topologically speaking) is a combination of the vertices and their edges, not as physical points but as discrete identities and information about which ones are joined to each other (and often also some information about the order in which they're joined, because that helps define the faces of the shape and some other handy properties).
tl;dr Yes?
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Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it, I was confused because I kept on seeing topology referred to in regards to projection geometry so I didn't realize it was almost universally applicable! – hadley Jan 19 '21 at 00:04
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1If you keep studying mathematics, you'll find that entire branches are based on "What if I took this thing and generalised it?", while others are based on "What if I took this thing and added this extra rule?" – ConMan Jan 19 '21 at 02:30
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I find that pretty exciting, I am just now exploring math on my own time aside from school and its the application component of math, both pure and functional, that I find most interesting. Also again, I really do appreciate your help in this. – hadley Jan 19 '21 at 03:08