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(I originally asked this question over on Aviation Stack Exchange, only for it to be closed as off-topic. I was told this was a better place to ask.)

The title is basically the whole question. If I wanted to see the same sunset twice, how fast would I need to climb?

I'm currently at about 32.5 degrees North latitude, and would be starting my climb from about 2,000 feet above MSL, but what I'm really interested in is some equation or function that I could use no matter where I am.

(Note: Although I'm American, I tend to prefer the metric system. However, aviation in general is stuck using feet to measure altitude around the world (with very few exceptions), hence the altitude in feet above. So I guess what I'm saying is, use whichever system you prefer, and I can convert to the other when necessary.)

Edit: To simplify the question, let's just assume I start climbing the moment the exact center of the sun reaches the horizon. What vertical speed would I need to keep the sun in that position relative to the horizon? And then I know that I just need to exceed that speed to "see the sunset again". I would be flying West at about 73 KIAS* (which, assuming standard temperature, would be about 76 knots true, or 39 m/s), so I don't know that my horizontal speed is going to affect the answer all that much.

*That's the maximum rate-of-climb airspeed for the typical plane I rent (Cessna 172 Skyhawk, if anyone's curious).

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    Welcome to MSE! <> Randall Munroe's analysis of the longest possible sunset while driving may not answer, but will probably be of interest. :) – Andrew D. Hwang Jun 23 '21 at 21:25
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    It will help if you specify, as precisely as you can, the mathematical assumptions you are making. In particular, are you starting when the disk of the sun has dipped below the horizon from your initial altitude and then ascending straight up (away from the center of the Earth) until the entire disk is visible again? (It occurs to me also that the answer may depend not only on the latitude but also on the time of year.) – Barry Cipra Jun 23 '21 at 21:37
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    You might also consider moving the question to https://astronomy.stackexchange.com -- I happened to notice a not-unrelated question there: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/44489/angle-the-sun-makes-with-the-horizon-during-sunset – Barry Cipra Jun 23 '21 at 21:49
  • What is the direction that you fly? What are the starting conditions... Why not see the sunset continuously? The rate of rotation is about 40,000 KM in 24 hours, as starter, at sea level. How fast can you climb? – Moti Jun 24 '21 at 00:02
  • @Moti How fast I can climb depends a lot on weather, weight, etc. If I'm alone in reasonably cool air, I can exceed 1,000 ft/min (5 m/s) vertical speed. But I'm more interested in getting the number I'd need to match, then seeing if the plane I'm currently flying can do that. – HiddenWindshield Jun 24 '21 at 00:54
  • You need to make some assumptions - is the earth a "nice" circle? Are you flying toward the sunset? I assume that you start with a sunset - I am not sure you need to climb - as I said - maintaining a speed of about 40000/24 km/hour will "keep" you in a constant sunset. – Moti Jun 24 '21 at 06:18

1 Answers1

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Here's a very quick-and-dirty estimate. Let's assume the earth is a sphere of radius $R$, that we're at latitude $\phi$, that the sun is a point source, and sets due west, in the plane containing the latitude circle of our location, i.e., it's an equinox.

Looking down from the nearest pole, we see our latitude as a circle of radius $R\cos\phi$. At sunset, we see the sun's ray as the line tangent to the latitude at our location. In polar coordinates $(r, \theta)$ with origin at the center of our latitude, this line has equation $r = R\cos\phi \sec\theta$. The shadow's distance from the latitude circle at (longitude) angle $\theta$ (in radians) is therefore $$ r - R\cos\phi = R\cos\phi(\sec\theta - 1) \approx \tfrac{1}{2}R\cos\phi \cdot \theta^{2}. $$ (In the diagram, our location is the rightmost point on the latitude circle and the vertical line represents the sun's ray through our location, shining upward. The approximation is the second-order Taylor approximation of secant.)

The altitude of sunset as a function of longitude

Edit: As David K notes in the comments, the preceding direction makes angle $\frac{\pi}{2} - \phi$ with the surface of the earth. A more accurate estimate of the altitude of the shadow above the ground is therefore obtained if we multiply by $\cos\phi$: $$ \text{Altitude} \approx \tfrac{1}{2}R\cos^{2}\phi \cdot \theta^{2}. $$ (This formula agrees to second order with the estimate obtained by modeling the earth's shadow as a cylinder circumscribed on the earth with the sun lying on the axis at infinite distance; calculation omitted.)

The earth rotates one full turn in $86400$ seconds, so $t$ seconds after sunset the earth has rotated by an angle $$ \theta = \frac{2\pi t}{86400}, $$ and the altitude of the shadow (adjusted as noted above) has increased to $$ \tfrac{1}{2}R\cos^{2}\phi \cdot \theta^{2} \approx 3175 \cos^{2}\phi \frac{(2\pi)^{2}}{86400^{2}} t^{2} \approx 1.68 \cos^{2}\phi \times 10^{-5} t^{2} $$ kilometers. At latitude $32.5^{\circ}$ this becomes about $1.2 \times 10^{-5} t^{2}$. Thus: $$ \begin{array}{l|lllll} \text{Minutes after sunset at sea level} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \text{Sun is setting at altitude (in m)} & 43 & 172 & 387 & 688 & 1075 \\ \end{array} $$

The rotation speed of the earth at the given latitude is just about $390$ m/s, so to account for the plane's speed we can multiply $\theta$ by $0.9$, which multiplies the second row of the table by $0.81$.

Added: The graph shows the altitude of the earth's shadow in this model (neglecting the ground speed of the plane) as a function of latitude (in $2^{\circ}$ increments) and time after sea level sunset, with $\phi = 32.5^{\circ}$ in light blue.

The world being what it is, I should add that while every effort has been made to provide accurate qualitative estimates, this answer is provided for amusement only, and is not intended to be used as a recommendation for actual flight. :)

Graph of shadow altitude

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    Increasing altitude goes in a direction away from the center of the earth, not perpendicular to the axis. The tangent plane of the Earth's shadow also is not parallel to the axis, and I think the net effect is to lower the altitude of the sunset, maybe by another factor of $\cos\phi.$ – David K Jun 24 '21 at 02:21
  • The numbers here also illustrate that the required climb rate is less if you start at a lower altitude. – David K Jun 24 '21 at 12:52
  • @DavidK: Your comment about an extra factor of $\cos\phi$ is correct; thank you. I stand by this as "quick-and-dirty", but ought to have included the inclination of vertical relative to the plane of the latitude. <> About the second comment, the climb rate is slower closer to sunset, but the quadratic increase in rate is due to the curvature of the earth, and should occur regardless of starting altitude (albeit in a way requiring adjustment of coefficients). Does that seem reasonable? Or is that not what you mean? – Andrew D. Hwang Jun 24 '21 at 13:55
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    The climb rate is slower closer to sunset-at-sea-level. If you start at 2000 feet altitude with the sun just setting as viewed from your aircraft, it will be some minutes after sunset at sea level. The higher you start, the longer after sea-level-sunset it will be when you start climbing. – David K Jun 25 '21 at 16:27
  • @DavidK: Thank you for the clarification. Practically, one has to look up the initial altitude in the second line of the table (for $2000$ feet, about $4$ minutes after sea level sunset) and reckon time starting from there, so as you say the climb rate increases with initial altitude. <> I'll update the answer in the not-too-distant future so your good points are easier to find for posterity. – Andrew D. Hwang Jun 26 '21 at 13:26
  • It’s all good; one reason I didn’t post an answer myself was that my approach would not have been much different from this answer. – David K Jun 26 '21 at 14:43