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Can anyone give me a parametrization of the integer solution triples $(m, b, c)$ to the equation $$m^2 = 16bc + 8b + 8c+1 \quad \text{ ?}$$

I tried many reformulations of this problem. One of those uses the Principal Axes Theorem of Linear Algebra, i.e. by the substitution $$\left[ \begin{array}{r} d\\[5pt] e\\[5pt] f\\ \end{array} \right] \quad := \quad \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \left[ \begin{array}{rrr} \sqrt{2} & 0 & 0 \\[5pt] 0 & 1 & 1 \\[5pt] 0 & -1 & 1 \\ \end{array}\right] \left[ \begin{array}{c} m\\[5pt] b\\[5pt] c\\ \end{array} \right] $$ I arrived at the equation $$d^2-8e^2+8f^2-8\sqrt{2}\:e=1$$ whose sole merit is that is hasn't got any mixed terms. I then investigated the requirements for $e, f$ so that the back-substitution would deliver integral values for $b$ and $c$ (there is no problem with $m$ as $m = d$). However, I suspect this is a dead end.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

  • Might not be a bad idea to look at examples. For which $m$ is there a good pair $(b,c)$? Clearly you need $m^2\equiv 1 \pmod 8$...are there other restrictions? – lulu Nov 07 '23 at 16:33
  • Indeed...if $m^2-1=8k$ then the pair $(b,c)=(k,0)$ works. Not sure if you meant to allow $0$ as a value. In any case, calling those triples "trivial", the question remains to look for non-trivial triples. – lulu Nov 07 '23 at 16:34
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    @lulu $m^2 + 3 = x y$ where $m$ is odd and both $x,y$ are even, specifically $2 \pmod 4$ So, given any odd $m,$ find all even divisors, name these $x,y$ then take $x = 4b+2, y=4c+2$ – Will Jagy Nov 07 '23 at 16:35
  • @WillJagy Ah, good point. – lulu Nov 07 '23 at 16:36
  • From any minimal nontrivial solution (as example $(b,c,m)$=(1,3,9)) can get partial rational parametrization $(b,c,m)=\bigg(\dfrac{s^2-t^2}{s^2-18 s t+33 t^2},\dfrac{3 (s^2-t^2)}{s^2-18 s t+33 t^2},\dfrac{-9 s^2+34 s t-9 t^2}{s^2-18 s t+33 t^2}\bigg)$. Then partial integer parametrization can get with solving Pell equation $s^2-18 s t+33 t^2=1$. – Dmitry Ezhov Nov 08 '23 at 09:36
  • @DmitryEzhov I am very much interested in what you are writing above, but I am not sure if I understand it. As far as I see it, I need an integer pair $(s, t)$ such that $s^2-18st+33t^2=1$. Then I plug $s$ and $t$ into the terms of your complicated triple and I get an integer triple $(b,c,m)$ which solves my original equation. And indeed, $s=2$ and $t=1$ delivers $(3, 9, 23)$ which works perfectly! Is that what you mean? But what is the role of $(1,3,9)$ in your method? I don't understand that. And how do you derive the terms in the complicated triple? Please explain. Thanks a lot!! – Marconi_1900 Nov 08 '23 at 15:04
  • @WillJagy Thank you for the solution method which you suggested yesterday. It works like a charm! The only drawback is that it isn't quite a parametrization. It is straightforward and quite valuable, though. – Marconi_1900 Nov 08 '23 at 15:11
  • Maybe there is a hidden connection between my diophantine equation and triangle numbers: Whenever $b, c$ are consecutive triangle numbers the term $16bc +8b+8c+1$ is a perfect square so that $b,c$ and the square root of $16bc +8b+8c+1$ form an integer solution triple. – Marconi_1900 Nov 08 '23 at 15:25
  • @Marconi_1900, it works same way as we looking for rational parametrization of circle/ellipse - draw line through two points. In this case the line passes through the points (1,3,9) and (0,0,s/t), that both lie on our surface. – Dmitry Ezhov Nov 08 '23 at 16:51
  • @DmitryEzhov I assume that by „our surface“ you mean the set of all real number triples $(b, c, m)$ that solve the equation $m^2 = 16bc+8b+8c+1$, and the principle you are alluding to is that any intersection point of that set and a line that goes through two rational points of that set is itself rational (in its components). But $(0,0,\tfrac{s}{t})$ does not lie on that surface! – Marconi_1900 Nov 08 '23 at 17:58
  • Marco there are a few ways to describe stereographic projection around a given solution. You suggest the order $(b,c,m).$ Apparently $(1,3,9)$ works. Let $(u,v,w)$ be any nonzero integer vector. The line in that direction, using a real parameter $t$ that becomes rational, is $(1+tu, 3+tv, 9+tw).$ For $t=0$ this is a solution, In most directions there will be a second solution, just name $b=1+tu, c=3+tv, m=9+tw,$ plugthose into your original equation. There will be cancellation of constants. Solve for $t,$ plug back into $b,c,m$ – Will Jagy Nov 08 '23 at 18:20
  • @WillJagy Thank you, that explains it. – Marconi_1900 Nov 08 '23 at 18:24
  • Meanwhile, you have a quadratic form set to a nonzero constant, $y^2 - zx = -3$ If the $-3$ were changed to zero, there would be a very nice parametrization, see Mordell's Diophantine Equations. especially page 47. Your actual item, allowing rational solutions, becomes integral again using $y^2 - zx + 3 w^2 = 0.$ I've never had any real luck with "parametrizations" of these. There is, in a positive note, a very nice parametrization for Pythagorean Quadruples, $x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = w^2$ but that one has a very fortunate relationship with the quaternions. Meanwhile, what is your background? – Will Jagy Nov 08 '23 at 18:35
  • an example that worked out: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1964607/when-will-a-parametric-solution-generate-all-possible-solutions/1965805#1965805 – Will Jagy Nov 08 '23 at 18:38
  • @WillJagy Thanks. I will answer your question about my background per mail to your gmail address. – Marconi_1900 Nov 08 '23 at 19:02

2 Answers2

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I'm writing your problem as $y^2 - zx = -3$ In this version, a good starting solution is $(2,1,2).$

Another direction, and likely the only parameterization available, starts by taking integers $$ ad - bc = \pm 1 $$

There are ways to generate the modular group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_group#Finding_elements and determinant $-1$ can be found by negating the lower row, say.

Then create the automorphism matrix

$$ M = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} a^2 & 2ac & c^2 \\ ab & ad+bc & cd \\ b^2 & 2bd & d^2 \\ \end{array} \right) $$

To start with a solution $$ V= \left( \begin{array}{r} x \\ y \\ z \\ \end{array} \right) $$ multiply $MV$ to get a new solution. Note that, with $x,z$ even and $y$ odd, the product $MV$ is the same way.

I was a little worried about finding all solutions, test triples $(14,19,26)$ and variant $(2,19,182).$ Taking $a=-1, b=-13,c=1,d=12.$

for

$$ \left( \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & -2 & 1 \\ 13 & -25 & 12 \\ 169 & -312 & 144 \\ \end{array} \right) \left( \begin{array}{r} 14 \\ 19 \\ 26 \\ \end{array} \right) = \left( \begin{array}{r} 2 \\ 19 \\ 182 \\ \end{array} \right) $$

$$ \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc $$

Will Jagy
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Ternary indefinite quadratic form automorphism group and $f(x,y,z) = N$ for integer $N.$

If I have only a subgroup of the full group, if I can still connect every solution to some favorite ground solution then I know the entire solution set is parametrized by the group times the base. For more difficult forms there is the simple method of finding a few reflections, Cassels page 19, called symmetries.

I'm writing your problem as $y^2 - zx = -3$ In this version, a good starting solution is $(2,1,2).$

Another direction, and likely the only parameterization available, starts by taking integers $$ ad - bc = \pm 1 $$

$$ M = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} a^2 & 2ac & c^2 \\ ab & ad+bc & cd \\ b^2 & 2bd & d^2 \\ \end{array} \right) $$

$$ V_0= \left( \begin{array}{r} 2 \\ 1 \\ 2 \\ \end{array} \right) $$

for new solution $$ X = \left( \begin{array}{c} 2(a^2 + ac + c^2) \\ 2ab + ad+bc + 2cd \\ 2(b^2 + 2bd + d^2) \\ \end{array} \right) $$

$$ \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc $$

Now, we can show that every solution $(x,y,z)$ to $y^2 - zx = -3$ of positive integers with $y$ odd and $x,z$ even can be reduced to my favorite solution, $(2,1,2)$

First case, what if $z = x?$ As $y^2 - x^2 = -3 = (y-x)(y+x),$ also $y+x > |y-x|$ and $y+x = 3, y-x = -1.$ Thus $y=1, x=z=2.$ This is the ground solution I choose.

Second case, if $x > z > 0$ we just switch to $(z,y,x)$ and rename, the new $x$ is smaller then the new $z.$ This is accomplished with parameters $ a=d = 0, b=c=1$ and

$$ M = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} 0 & 0 & 1 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 1 & 0 & 0 \\ \end{array} \right) $$

Third case, the descent itself. Here $0 < x < z.$ We need to confirm that $y$ is in between.... well, $x,z$ are both $2 \pmod 4,$ so that $z \geq x+4,$ also $x \geq 2.$ So $$zx \geq (x+4) x = x^2 + 4x = x^2 + 2x + 2x \geq x^2 + 2x + 4.$$ Then $y^2 + 3 = zx,$ so $$ y^2 + 3 \geq x^2 + 2x + 4, $$ $$ y^2 \geq x^2 + 2x + 1 = (x+1)^2 $$ and $y > x$ So far we have $$ 0 < x < y < z $$ This time we take parameters $a=1, b = -1, c=0, d=1$ for $$ M = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} 0 & 0 & 0 \\ -1 & 1 & 0 \\ 1 & -2 & 1 \\ \end{array} \right) $$ so that the new triple is $$ (x, y-x, x-2y+ z) $$ Thus the new value of $y$ is strictly smaller, $x$ stays the same. Also we still have $y^2 + 3 = zx,$ so that the new $z$ is positive and strictly smaller then the old $z.$

As $y$ strictly decreases, we can do these steps only a finite number of times, new triple either $(z,y,x)$ or $ (x, y-x, x-2y+ z), $ until we reach a solution where neither $x < z$ nor $x > z$ holds, that is the root solution $(2,1,2).$ Hooray!

$$ \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc \bigcirc $$

The advantage of having a group and matirx multiplication: given an initial column vector solution with large entries, carefully write out the string of matrices that take that initial $X$ to my $V_0.$ The reult of keeping track of the matrix product is some $W$ for which $WX = V_0.$ Then take $M = W^{-1}$ so that $X = M V_0$ Furthermore, the $a,b,c,d$ that give $W$ can just be inverted to give $M,$ the formula for $M$ far above is a homomorphism from the group of 2 by 2 (integer) matrices of determinant $\pm 1$ to the group of 3 by 3 matrices of determinant $\pm 1.$

Oh, earlier I deliberately took $b = -1$ in the matrix. It is likely that this step will be used many times in a row, so we might as well combine them:

$a=1, c=0, d=1$ and negative $b,$ $$ M = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} 0 & 0 & 0 \\ b & 1 & 0 \\ b^2 & 2b & 1 \\ \end{array} \right) $$ so that the new triple is $$ (x, y+bx, b^2 x + 2by+ z). $$ We choose $b < 0$ so that $y + bx > 0$ but $y + (b-1)x \leq 0.$ Thus the new $y$ has the minimum possible size. Also, the new $z$ is small, now $x > z > 0.$ So we do a switch step. In case you are familiar, this process is very close to Gauss reduction for positive binary quadratic forms. Also quite similar to the Euclidean algorithm for finding greatest common divisor of two numbers

Will Jagy
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