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I know they teach $E^2=(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2$ but in my opinion this equation is ugly. There is an equation that is even more accurate and, in my opinion, looks better. So why not teach it?

First off, this is something I did for fun, but my question, while not completely serious, does stand.

I like working with equations and a while ago I decided to turn my attention to the famous equation $E=mc^2$ (if you don’t know this equation then you should do some research). When I started working with it I knew of the quote unquote “true” equation $E^2=(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2$. I thought this equation looked ugly but I didn’t know how to fix that so I turned to just making it more accurate.

You see, there is something known as relativistic momentum. $p=\gamma mv$ you may consider this to be the more accurate version of momentum, so I decided to plug it into the “true” equation I mentioned earlier.

First the definitions. $$E^2=(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2$$ $$p=\gamma mv$$ $$\gamma=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}$$ Then the algebra. $$E=\sqrt{(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2}$$ $$\sqrt{(mc^2)^2+(\gamma mvc)^2}$$ $$\sqrt{(mc^2)^2+\bigg(\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}mvc\bigg)^2}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2 c^4 +\bigg(\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}\bigg)^2 m^2 v^2 c^2}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2\bigg(c^4 +\frac{v^2 c^2}{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}\bigg)}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2\bigg(c^4 +\frac{v^2 c^2}{\frac{c^2}{c^2}-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}\bigg)}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2\bigg(c^4 +\frac{v^2 c^2}{(\frac{c^2 - v^2}{c^2})}\bigg)}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2\bigg(c^4 +\frac{v^2 c^4}{c^2 - v^2}\bigg)}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2 c^4\bigg(1 +\frac{v^2}{c^2 - v^2}\bigg)}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2 c^4\bigg(\frac{c^2 - v^2}{c^2 - v^2} +\frac{v^2}{c^2 - v^2}\bigg)}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2 c^4\bigg(\frac{c^2 - v^2 +v^2}{c^2 - v^2}\bigg)}$$ $$\sqrt{m^2 c^6\bigg(\frac{1}{c^2 - v^2}\bigg)}$$ $$mc^3\sqrt{\frac{1}{c^2 - v^2}}$$ $$E=\frac{mc^3}{\sqrt{c^2 - v^2}}$$ And there it is $E=mc^3$ sort of. Now it could be that I made this equation, but I think it looks better than the “true” equation. So that brings up a question. If it is more accurate and, in my opinion, looks better, why isn’t it taught in school? One could make the argument that with the methods used in the algebra, $v$ cannot equal $c$ but we are talking about an object with mass so this would be true anyway.


EDIT: I’m not saying $E=mc^3$ should be taught instead of $E=mc^2$. I am instead asking why is $E^2=(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2$ taught instead of $E=\frac{mc^3}{\sqrt{c^2 - v^2}}$?

spydragon
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    Physics stack exchange? – Eric Feb 11 '24 at 16:59
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    Your last formula follows immediately from the known energy mass relationship. Imho the question why this isn't taught to people does not even arise. – Kurt G. Feb 11 '24 at 17:01
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    Dimensional analysis. – Enrico M. Feb 11 '24 at 17:04
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    Also, there is no "true" equation. They are both true. – Enrico M. Feb 11 '24 at 17:05
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    If you click the little Stack Exchange logo at the top left of your screen, you will see a list of all the Stack Exchange sites, including, yes, one on physics. But you'll get a better reception, either there or here, if you can avoid having your question come across as "the entire establishment is wrong and stupid and my idea is way better". – Nate Eldredge Feb 11 '24 at 17:07
  • @NateEldredge that isn’t my intention. I will admit I made this post to show off a little, of what I like to do in my free time but I’m not saying that my way is the best. But I do wonder why not be more accurate if the equation itself looks better, I can understand an equation that is more complicated, but I don’t think this is in That realm. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:10
  • I understand your intention - I'm just saying the effect you ended up with is not appealing. – Nate Eldredge Feb 11 '24 at 17:11
  • @NateEldredge ah, I’ll see what I can do. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:13
  • @EnricoM. could you elaborate? I haven’t taken a class on dimensional analysis and I would like to know more! – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:29
  • @KurtG. while I get what your saying, when has that stopped teachers from teaching equations and then never elaborating on how that equation came to be? – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:35
  • I don't know how you learned about $E=\gamma m_0 c^2$ or your equivalent last equation. In my case my teachers have elaborated how these equations came to be. – Kurt G. Feb 11 '24 at 17:37
  • @KurtG. man I wish I had teachers like yours, I got my knowledge mostly from YouTube. Not the best place I know, but it’s free and easy to get to. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:44
  • You don't need a class for dimensional analysis - it's a very simple concept. If you multiply two physical quantities, the units of the result are the product of the units of the factors. So if $m$ has units of kg and $c$ has meters/second, them $mc^2$ has units of $\mathrm{kg}\cdot \mathrm{m}^2/\mathrm{s}^2$, i.e. joules, which is a unit of energy and makes sense for $E$. But $mc^3$ has units of $\mathrm{kg}\cdot \mathrm{m}^3/\mathrm{s}^3$ which is not a unit of energy. – Nate Eldredge Feb 11 '24 at 18:47
  • @NateEldredge well, that’s true if you only consider the abbreviated equation, it isn’t true for the final product. And I was using the abbreviation as clickbait. since $E=mc^2$ is a far better approximation I would rather that be taught than my abbreviation. But where my question lies is with the teaching of the more accurate $E^2=(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2$ and both that and my equation simplify to $kg*\frac{m^2}{s^2}$ at least I think it does, I need to double check. also isn’t that equation for joules derived from $E=mc^2$? – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 18:55
  • Yeah, your final equation is dimensionally consistent. But when you "abbreviated" it by leaving out the denominator, you changed the whole meaning and the result was nonsense. – Nate Eldredge Feb 11 '24 at 19:08
  • @NateEldredge agreed – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 19:09
  • @NateEldredge I should have clarified my question. Now I have. thank you for helping. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 19:15
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    I would suggest changing the title as well, because it's very misleading. – Nate Eldredge Feb 11 '24 at 19:19
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    In short: the "ugly" equation $E^2=(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2$ is a version of the length of four-momentum in the Minkovski norm. The entire special theory of relativity is built on the paradigm that only quantities whose Minkovski norm is invariant under Lorentz transformations are physical. All others depend on the observer. This principle carries over to general relativity. Morale: the Minkovski norm of four momentum is the same for every observer, therefore a physical quantity. $E=\gamma mc^2$ follows from this, or – Kurt G. Feb 11 '24 at 19:43
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    $E=\frac{mc^3}{\sqrt{c^2-v^2}}$ if you like. – Kurt G. Feb 11 '24 at 19:43

3 Answers3

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Will Jagy
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    While this image may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the image for reference. – Тyma Gaidash Feb 11 '24 at 17:25
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    I agree with @ТymaGaidash… especially since I don’t get it. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:36
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    @spydragon: The guy in the white coat is supposed to be Einstein. The joke is that he can't figure out the correct exponent for $c$ in the equation, until by chance he overheard the cleaning lady saying the word "squared" in a totally unrelated context. Which is even funnier if you know dimensional analysis: if the equation is going to be of the form $E=mc^k$ then $k$ can only be $2$ in order to make the units work. So it makes the Einstein in the comic look particularly foolish. – Nate Eldredge Feb 11 '24 at 19:15
  • Ok, that makes more sense. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 19:17
  • (The illustration is also inaccurate, since Einstein proposed the $E=mc^2$ equation in 1905, when he was 26 years old and looked like this, with his hair shorter and not yet white.) – Nate Eldredge Feb 11 '24 at 19:18
  • @NateEldredge once again, wasn’t that equation for joules derived from $E=mc^2$ if that is the case, then k is unknown since that formula for joules didn’t even exists. Either way it doesn’t matter. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 19:30
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There’s a notion of relativistic mass $m=m_0 \gamma$ so that $E=m_0 \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}c^2=m_0 \gamma c^2= m c^2$ is in fact correct.

spydragon
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Eric
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  • $m_0$ is used for mass with no momentum, so if we are being picky with notation… but I do understand, and I will think about this. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:05
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    Consider that in any case the notion of relativistic mass has no meaning. There is no such thing. It comes from the "need" to maintain the equation in the same form they are for non-relativistic classical mechanics. Though it leads to misconceptions and wrong conclusions. – Enrico M. Feb 11 '24 at 17:15
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How can be $c^2-v^2=1 $ ? wehn $c=300000 \frac{km}{sec}$ and $v$ is our velocity . Usually $$v<<c$$ and it lead again the relation to $$E=\frac{mc^3}{\sqrt{c^2 - v^2}} \sim \frac{mc^3}{\sqrt{c^2 }}=mc^2 $$ The fastest things on earth until now is The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird is the current record-holder for a crewed airbreathing jet aircraft. It's about $3500 \ \frac {km}h$ if you approx it to $3600 \ \frac{km}{h}=600 \ \frac{m}{sec}$ and $$v=600 \frac{m}{sec} << c\sim 30000000 \frac{m}{sec}$$

Khosrotash
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  • You answered your own equation with the use of the word “usually” like I said it’s a bit of clickbate, but is theoretically true. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:27
  • Also, just because the things we have made don’t go that fast, that’s because those objects were at one point $v=0$ on earth, other objects were never at that speed relative to earth, and there are galaxies moving away from us a quite a pace. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:40
  • @spydragon: Suppose the velocity of galaxies adds to our velocity in the perspective of relativity so it adds to every speed on the galaxy. like $v_{gal}+v \v_{gal}+c\v_{gal}+v_{every-thing -else}$ – Khosrotash Feb 11 '24 at 17:45
  • From the perspective of relativity, it depends on your frame of reference, the same is true for my equation. The velocity of a galaxy is v according to earths frame of reference. And some other number at a different frame of reference (0 if the frame of reference is the galaxy) either way, I asked this question because I’m a pure amateur mathematician. I don’t usually consider the practice side of these sorts of things, but I’m very glad that people like you do. Otherwise computers wouldn’t exist, and I probably would have crashed on my last plane flight. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:48
  • Oh, you erase $c^2-v^2=1$ ?!! In the earth everything is relative. For example, the earth loses about 50000 tons of Its mass per year, but it is not a worry why? Don’t worry, though. If that diet remained constant over a billion years, our planet would have lost only eight-billionths of its total mass. – Khosrotash Feb 11 '24 at 17:56
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    I erased it because of a different comment, not because of you. But once again it’s a theoretical thing, I agree with you practically. It’s useless to consider $c^2 -v^2=1$ but it is theoretically interesting. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 17:59
  • @spydragon: Can you bring an example for $c^2-v^2=1$ ? if it exists near the light velocity mass tends to zero, and the Rulse must be changed (I think) – Khosrotash Feb 11 '24 at 18:04
  • Mass of an object doest’t change when its speed changes. As far as I know that’s a misconception based off of the original $E=mc^2$ the only things that change from relativistic velocities are the length of time, the length of an object and if two events happen at the same time. Which I don’t want to get into because I still haven’t fully grasped that part of relativistic physics. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 18:11
  • You also asked I bring an example, well, I’m certain that one galaxy must be close to that speed relative to us, but I don’t know any specific examples. What I do know is that if you take into the account of the universe expanding (which I was ignoring until now) there are galaxies going faster than the speed of light away from us. But I still don’t get how it’s possible. Some will say we are moving less then the speed of light away from a different point of reference but relativity says its impossible from any point of reference. I have heard other better explanations though. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 18:36
  • But that’s going away from this discussion. – spydragon Feb 11 '24 at 18:36